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  • Given how much uproar there was about the "politicized court" and how many people were saying the Court would lose all legitimacy, I'd say plenty of Dems were blind too
  • Subby: "Hold up" means to delay (or to rob). "Uphold" means to reaffirm.

    You're welcome.
  • In hindsight, sure, he definitely telegraphed that he thought the penalty and the mandate itself were inseparable. At the time though, he looked like he was in the middle just like Kennedy was, and we all know where Kennedy ended up.
  • Roberts voted WITH Kagan, Sotomayor, Ginsburg and Breyer....that's the only relevant fact to the discussion, the rest is irrelevant.


    I blame Bush.

    For turning over the office to someone not constitutionally eligible!
  • Republicans were blind because they refuse to look around them and listen to what anybody with a different opinion might have to say. To them, there is only 1 opinion. 1 perspective. Anybody who isn't completely on board with that agenda is a 'Socialist'.

    I can't wait till they implode after this election that they think they will sweep.
  • TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

    Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

    No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

    Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!
  • iron_city_ap: Republicans were blind because they refuse to look around them and listen to what anybody with a different opinion might have to say. To them, there is only 1 opinion. 1 perspective. Anybody who isn't completely on board with that agenda is a 'Socialist'.


    As a general point maybe, but in this specific instance, Democrats had no clue either. It's really just that it's hard as hell to tell the complex legal opinion of 9 people just based on the questions they ask and don't ask.

    In other words, this isn't much of a story. If you can only tell in hindsight, then it obviously wasn't telegraphed all that hard.
  • Those were some damn subtle "hints" TPM came up with during their Monday Morning quarterbacking. Obviously, no one saw this coming.
  • randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!


    They did.
  • randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

    Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

    No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

    Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


    RTFA. Subby's headline does not match the article (shocker). The TPM article does not imply that they knew all along, nor does it criticize Repubs for not predicting the outcome.
    /And yes, libs did win this one. Big time.
  • Now that I think about it, I totally saw the Heat beating the Thunder in five.
  • randomjsa: TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along


    No they aren't.
  • Don't feed the troll.
  • randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


    They did win, and they did tell you so. It doesn't matter if you think SCOTUS has the right to thought-police liberals and dictate that what they intended as a penalty is therefore covered under Congress' right to collect taxes (go on and hold that thought simultaneously as you dictate that any liberal that tells you to shut your ignorant mouth is infringing on your freedom of speech).

    Spin and message control isn't working out so well these days, is it? To claim you're right (you aren't) you're now required to claim that SCOTUS has the right to thought-police people and declare their intent (a far cry from what makes a law permissible), which speaks nothing of the fact that, on SCOTUS' ruling, you were simply wrong.
  • randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

    Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

    No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

    Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


    Obama predicted it would be upheld. Many Liberals did. Many Liberals feared it would be overturned. Conservatives were very confident it would be shot down so they have the most egg on their face.

    TPM article does indicate some hints (I wouldn't say a trail of hints) that it could be upheld but not really how it would be upheld. It is almost as if Roberts shifted his strategy in terms of the way he would uphold it at some point.
  • randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!


    They did.

    If you insist on looking at politics like a team sport, their team beat your team really bad.

    They won. You lost.
  • randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


    If the strategy I teach my basketball team is to attack the basket, yet we win a 90-82 game by hitting 15 3-pointers to only 6 points in the paint, did my team lose?

    You can say I used a bad strategy, but you can't disregard the fact that the outcome (the scoreboard, or PPACA as valid Federal law) was what we were seeking anyway.
  • randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

    Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

    No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

    Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


    You know, in every thread where you pop up, you are utterly annihilated by facts within 15 minutes. That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.
  • coeyagi: That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.


    People respond to him as though he is remotely serious over and over. No matter how ridiculous his comments.

    Considering his current line of reasoning, I am assuming he is sitting at his office quietly commending himself for "winning" this thread since everybody is now focused on him.
  • coeyagi: randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

    Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

    No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

    Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!

    You know, in every thread where you pop up, you are utterly annihilated by facts within 15 minutes. That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.


    Developmentally challenged people can be determined also.

    /just saying
  • bulldg4life: coeyagi: That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.

    People respond to him as though he is remotely serious over and over. No matter how ridiculous his comments.

    Considering his current line of reasoning, I am assuming he is sitting at his office quietly commending himself for "winning" this thread since everybody is now focused on him.


    Well in fairness, the TPM article's headline isn't well supported. Conservatives should not have been so positive it would be overturned but neither was their much evidence predicting the contrary.
  • The Homer Tax: randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!

    They did.

    If you insist on looking at politics like a team sport, their team beat your team really bad.

    They won. You lost.


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  • coeyagi: randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

    Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

    No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

    Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

    Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

    Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!

    You know, in every thread where you pop up, you are utterly annihilated by facts within 15 minutes. That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.


    I think that makes him an Internet Republican, actually.

    /also known as a "fark independent"
  • randomjsa: weak ass crap


    Quiet, everyone! A retarded idiot is jamming his head up his ass!
  • NateGrey: randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!

    They did.


    Obama can certainly call this a "win," although liberals (actual liberals I mean) would have preferred single payer/Medicare for all. ACA is a small step in the right direction, but it is far from a "liberal" policy.
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