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  • QFTFA:
    "It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

    In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.
  • Here's an idea: how about you get your staff to stop raping little kids? When you finally agree that molesting children is wrong, then maybe I'll consider the possibility that you might have some moral authority. But as long as you keep allowing your staff to keel brutally raping children, and you, personally, make an effort to cover up for their crimes, I'm not really convinced that you're in a position to tell anyone else what is right and what is wrong.

    In short, Mr. Ratzinger, please don't hesitate to go f**k yourself.
  • Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

    1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?

    2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

    3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

    // Where do you fit in, Father Lombardi?
  • If we legalized kiddie diddling they'd be throwing a frikkin party
  • Boo-frickin-hoo.

    I don't give a damn about your "special privilege" to keep a group from having the same rights as everyone else. If you can't accept that, then go fark yourselves.
  • which is fine - I mean nobody ever said that we all had to be ok with gay marriage. But the Vatican doesn't make the rules in this country. they can (and do) set the rules in THEIR nation, and i'm sure they've got a pretty decent influence around the world...but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Vatican gets a say, they don't get their way. the people who live HERE get to decide for themselves what's right and what's legal.
  • Frederick: In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.


    Indeed. Last I heard, we were a Constitutionally-limited Republic, not a theocracy. The Vatican can go fark itself.
  • Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.
  • Perhaps the Vatican should worry about Rome, and not what folks who aren't Catholic are doing.

    That's the issue. Not Catholics. Buddhists. Pagans. Methodists. Lutherans. Unitarians--you know, some of the folks the Catholics ran a Crusade against before they rolled on Jerusalem. The Vatican should worry about what Catholics are doing, and deal with them, and maybe leave governing of a nation that ISN'T Catholic alone. Especially one that is based upon the separation of church and state...

    While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...
  • SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.


    Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?
  • hubiestubert: Perhaps the Vatican should worry about Rome, and not what folks who aren't Catholic are doing.

    That's the issue. Not Catholics. Buddhists. Pagans. Methodists. Lutherans. Unitarians--you know, some of the folks the Catholics ran a Crusade against before they rolled on Jerusalem. The Vatican should worry about what Catholics are doing, and deal with them, and maybe leave governing of a nation that ISN'T Catholic alone. Especially one that is based upon the separation of church and state...

    While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...


    Now I'm off to play Assassin's Creed. I feel like killing some of these self-righteous Catholics.
  • hubiestubert:
    While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...


    the Vatican is really getting worried. they've been seeing a slow decline in influence for a while now - not just with the gay marriage issue but here in the US the explosive growth of various christian and pseudo-christian sects has undermined the authority of the Catholic church in north america. In particular, the refusal to even acknowledge the prosperity gospel heresy or deal with it in any way has cost them power, influence AND money in this country and, to a lesser extent, canada. why go to a catholic church and deal with that icky social justice issue when you could just call yourself 'christian' and hoard cash like a greedy miser and get told God WANTS you to be a rich, evil sociopathic bastard? all the money, none of the guilt. no wonder the Vatican is losing influence.
  • Weaver95: hubiestubert:
    While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...

    the Vatican is really getting worried. they've been seeing a slow decline in influence for a while now - not just with the gay marriage issue but here in the US the explosive growth of various christian and pseudo-christian sects has undermined the authority of the Catholic church in north america. In particular, the refusal to even acknowledge the prosperity gospel heresy or deal with it in any way has cost them power, influence AND money in this country and, to a lesser extent, canada. why go to a catholic church and deal with that icky social justice issue when you could just call yourself 'christian' and hoard cash like a greedy miser and get told God WANTS you to be a rich, evil sociopathic bastard? all the money, none of the guilt. no wonder the Vatican is losing influence.


    No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...
  • Don't worry. They'll figure it out 600 years after the rest of the world does, as usual.
  • hubiestubert:

    No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...


    to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.
  • Weaver95: hubiestubert:

    No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...

    to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.


    America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...
  • And the gap between the Catholic hierarchy and practicing Catholics grows wider. So it goes.
  • hubiestubert:
    America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...


    so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.
  • hubiestubert: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

    No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...

    to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.

    America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...


    Why. do you think, does every minority group suddenly find themselves blessed with a candidate for sainthood lately?

    /it's like a frikkin miracle
  • SnarfVader: They'll get over it.


    They'll get over it.
  • Weaver95: hubiestubert:
    America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition t's between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...

    so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.


    I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.
  • The Church's inability to see their way towards sanctioning treating gay folks the same way anyone would want to be treated ie. like full citizens with equal rights tells me a few things.

    A) They neither get nor practice the core message of Jesus' teachings.
    B) Their relevancy and moral authority will likely continue to erode even past their current low levels.
    C) They cynically recognize that a lot of their priests are self-loathing closeted gay men who pursue a religious calling in order to escape persecution and that normalizing gay people into general society will cut into those flagging numbers even further.

    Atheist/Recovering Catholic.
  • i.imgur.comView Full Size


    Meh. You have no power here.
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