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    "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and goodwill towards men.

    .And that's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.
  • "Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

    Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

    Non-story, folks. Carving out a few hours from a public school day to take kids to a church to watch a story about how Linus and Charlie Brown are touched by the birth of Christ is clearly over the line.
  • The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene
  • ......and this is why people hate atheists.
  • Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.
  • As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.
  • Aren't field trips optional?
  • Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


    Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?
  • Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


    Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.

    Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.


    Religious people give us plenty of reason to loathe them as well but I have watched that show every year since it came out.
  • I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.
  • I watch the Charlie Brown Christmas show every year, and I'm one of those evil atheist types. The objection was that a school was taking a field trip to a church.
  • minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


    Doesn't matter. As soon as you put kids whose parents opted to have them put on a bus paid for by tax dollars, chaperone by teachers paid by tax dollars, and the kids are counted as present on a school day, and thus get federal funds, you are violating the first amendment.
  • R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


    Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.
  • Cythraul: R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.

    Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.


    So you DO believe?
  • R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


    Oh good, you're going to pray. I was concerned you were going to do something that could actually accomplish anything.

    No public school should be bringing kids to a performance within explicitly proselytizing tone, much less one that includes passages from a religious text presented in anything but a scholarly fashion.
  • R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


    Truth. The All-Father needs more followers. "To You, Dread Lord, I dedicate this battle-field, this harvest of Men!"
  • minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


    Sure. But the question has nothing to do with the children's or parents' consent or ability to opt out, it has to do with the initiation of state action.

    The school couldn't say, "Hey, we're taking a 'field trip' to 'watch' Catholic Mass, but you can opt out if you don't want to go" and have it pass muster.
  • Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

    Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


    Maybe those people need to pull the sticks out of their asses and lighten up. I'm an atheist. We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship. People are going to believe. You can't do a damn thing about that. It's farking Charlie Brown. It's been a while since I've last seen it, but to my recollection, Jesus or the birth of Jesus is mentioned only once in the entire film.

    If I had kids, and the school took them to see a play where at one point in the play, a Bible verse was recited, you know what I'd do? Nothing. That's what I'd do. "Oh no, my children were exposed to a point of view that differs from my own, whatever shall I do?" Children have to learn at some point there's different kinds of people in this world. I'd tell them that while I don't believe in God, lots of other people do, and that's just as okay. It's not going to hurt them. They aren't going to burst into flames and become charcoal briquettes.
  • kronicfeld: The school couldn't say, "Hey, we're taking a 'field trip' to 'watch' Catholic Mass, but you can opt out if you don't want to go" and have it pass muster.


    The Bible, the Quran, and other religious writings have been studied in public schools for years, with full legal backing. They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.
  • Coco LaFemme: We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship.


    This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?
  • AbbeySomeone: If you are offended don't let your kids go.


    I don't think anyone's offended by the cartoon/play. What they take offense to is the school-sponsored religious activity.
  • R.A.Danny: They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.


    For the purpose of education, yes, but it's a very fuzzy line. A religious studies class could attend a mass, but you couldn't send the entire 5th grade, for example.
  • t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship.

    This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?


    How is this marginalizing them? Is it telling them they're less than human or not as good as Christians? Is it devaluing their religious beliefs and/or mocking them?
  • R.A.Danny: The Bible, the Quran, and other religious writings have been studied in public schools for years, with full legal backing. They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.


    If they're going to have a scholarly discussion about the religious themes in the play upon returning to school and explore comparative religious education regarding the historical origins of Christmas (including Saturnalia and pagans) and other religions' observances, then of course it is legitimate. Somehow, though, I doubt that is what is happening.
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