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  • John Koster is the author of the recently-published Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor. An Army veteran, he lives in New Jersey.

    Ah. A book to sell.
  • H2 hasn't come calling yet?
  • "A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

    Yes, serious weaknesses that somehow resulted in complete annihilation of the Japanese 6th army.

    This revisionist shiat is boring.
  • violentsalvation: This revisionist shiat is boring.


    And that's a wrap.
  • Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.
  • DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


    As someone who went to public school, I can attest to this. Most of what I really learned about US History, I learned on my own outside of public school.
  • DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


    Something tells me this story is about as legitimate as the theory that the Department of War bribed some radar operator to keep quiet about the masses of Japanese fighters coming at Pearl Harbor.
  • mages1.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size

    /but seriously, fdr can eat a bag of dicks
    //retroactively cause of the being dead thing
  • Nadie_AZ: John Koster is the author of the recently-published Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor. An Army veteran, he lives in New Jersey.

    Ah. A book to sell.


    No. Sadly, this is common knowledge. He's the guy who said Oppenheimer was a member of the Communist Party and got him effectively blackballed. It was a lie.

    The Pearl Harbor story is exaggerated - but it certainly did feed the fire for a pre-emptive attack by the Emperor. Paranoid people sitting in a matchstick throne during a wildfire are seldom acting sanely.

    DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


    I learned about this in public school. Rather poorly, but our teacher made DAMN sure that we didn't just say the Japanese did it because of fear over "Bundles for Britain". He also made us watch "Bataan", "All Quiet On the Western Front" and "The Longest Day". In the same semester, and about half of us were enthralled. The other half slept.

    When the final for the semester appeared and it was exclusively on the movies... people shat their pants.

    /If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."
  • DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


    Quite. Not like those homeschooled kids who are taught about how Jesus rode dinosaurs to deliver the flag to Betsy and told her about how we are God's chosen people.
  • John Koster is an anagram of J.K. n. Rooster.
  • Since the Japanese weren't looking west any time soon, and didn't have any real plans to fight the Soviets--particularly since the only place they would have been looking at, the Kamchatka Peninsula, was mostly cut off from Russia by Manchuria anyway, which Japan already held in 1941--IF this is true then it only shows how paranoid and spectacularly stupid Stalin was when it came to foreign policy.

    Japan was moving east and south in 1941. They might have wanted to nibble on Russia eventually--they considered it for a while after WWI--but probably not. They had plenty of what seemed to them good reasons to fight the US and attack Pearl Harbor; which eventually backfired. The idea that Stalin engineered the whole thing to keep the Japanese busy in the Pacific because he was scared of a two-front war kind of ignores the basic facts that in 1941, there was no danger of a two-front war for Russia. Japan was still bogged down in China. What Stalin needed was for the US to enter the EUROPEAN war, and quickly, to beat Hitler, and then Stalin could have whipped Japan all on his own.

    This sounds like the idea of somebody who's swallowed the whole Great Patriotic War revision hook, line and sinker and is looking for ways to justify the theory that Stalin was the prime mover of WWII. Next we'll be reading a book about how Finland provoked Russia during the Finnish Offensive War against Mother Russia by allying with Italy in a sneak move to force Norway to declare war on the USSR.
  • I went to public school, and learned a very great deal about how oppressed public employee union members are by administrators.

    At least, getting the teacher to talk about the union squabble of the week was easier than actually doing work and studying class material.
  • Wow. Remind me never to click on a TIME link again.
  • wademh: DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

    Quite. Not like those homeschooled kids who are taught about how Jesus rode dinosaurs to deliver the flag to Betsy and told her about how we are God's chosen people.


    Homeschooled until 8th Grade. After I was eight years old, my mother gave up.

    I was devouring collegiate Biology books and English texts by then.

    /Burnt-out child prodigy. "Could've cured cancer... decided to steal cable." might as well be my motto...
  • Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."


    Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

    America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

    George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,
  • Remarkable, even. Thanks auto-correct.
  • doglover: Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."

    Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

    America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

    George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,


    I think the starvation/genocide part may have helped set the Axis powers apart as well.... or did we perform forced death marches during WWII as well?
  • Jedekai: Homeschooled until 8th Grade. After I was eight years old, my mother gave up.


    Almost any child of typical intelligence could learn all of the actual facts and skills taught in primary school over the course of 2-3 years. That we spend a decade on the project is related much more to the way our society treats children and organizes schools than to any limitations of the typical student.

    / Not saying your weren't smart, just whinging about how we waste children's lives
  • Iraq WMDs
    Babies being thrown out of incubators in Kuwait
    The "attack" in the Gulf of Tonkin

    It's not exactly as though the US has to be sold a good story before it goes charging off into war.
  • violentsalvation: "A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

    Yes, serious weaknesses that somehow resulted in complete annihilation of the Japanese 6th army.

    This revisionist shiat is boring.


    Point taken, but I don't know I still think it's kind of interesting. I don't have the exact figures off the top of my head, but Stalin was able to divert a lot of his most seasoned soilders from Siberia once he knew Japan and the US were going to duke it out. This certainly proved effective in helping to end Hitlers Barbarossa campaign and start Stalin's counter attack.
    How big of a role did HDW really play? I don't know, but (and this is where I think it gets interesting) if he did, how could the outcome of WW2 been affected had the Soviet Union been neutralized?
  • Interesting theory but where is the time machine because Japan had already invaded Korea and China 40 years earlier? Everything else was already invaded by Europeans, France in Vietnam, UK in Hong Kong, Portugal in Macau etc. They also had kicked ass in a war with Russia that Teddy Roosevelt got a Nobel peace prize for helping to broker a peace treaty for back before it was enough to just be a democrat liberturd dickhead like Bore, Farter and Hobama.

    Their attacks across East Asia were something they were always going to do from Siberia to Hong Kong to Vietnam, Thailand and Singapore and took place 2 years after WW2 started and the colonial powers were either subjugated by Germany, like France and the Netherlands, or fully engaged in defending themselves, like the UK and the USSR, leaving everything undefended and easy pickings. In truth nothing could have deterred them.
  • Woolwine: DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

    As someone who went to public school, I can attest to this. Most of what I really learned about US History, I learned on my own outside of public school.


    i disagree with your statement and the agreement response post. i was lucky enough to receive a NJ public school education and i'm grateful for that. History was taught in NJ schools. we're good that way. also thankful my Mom cared enough to expose me to a wide variety of cultural activities. part of the blessing of growing up in NJ is being minutes away from all that NYC has to offer (thank you God!). i too happened to be an avid reader and took advantage of the excellent NJ Library system. you'd be surprised what i've learned, wink wink nudge nudge know what i mean?

    /yes, i go
  • "A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

    Dying is the only way / for you to float free: / Nomonhan
  • Alonjar: doglover: Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."

    Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

    America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

    George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,

    I think the starvation/genocide part may have helped set the Axis powers apart as well.... or did we perform forced death marches during WWII as well?


    We only killed 100,000's of people with two of the most evil weapons even deployed and used loyal American youths of Japanese heritage as a unit of expendables in Germany. As for the starvation, that was endemic to the Western front. For every prisoner who starved, at least two Russians did, too. As for the industrial genocide, if only there was a word for that. Oh wait, there is: Euginics, which I already mentioned in my original post.

    We also treated the blacks a little less than kindly as well, back then. And in Japan, forieners = people is also kind of a newer idea. They discovered human rights about when we discovered civil ones.

    Always remeber your shiat don't smell any better just because someone else's smells worse. It would be far better to teach kids the real history of the world wars rather than the us vs them narrative which not only leaves out the best parts and people from the other side but also fails to address the larger issue of how to prevent such a large cluster fark from ever happening again. It was a bad time.
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